Section 8 Clan Forums

In-game name: Jump or Die
Approximate time/date of ban (include time zone): I'll say around 8 PM EST yesterday. I haven't checked back on today, but that was around the time I was told I were to be banned
Admin that banned you: The one who told me is Vagisil
Reason you were banned: Hoping to get some clarification on that, but I think spawn camping and arguing with admins
Details of your appeal: I would like to appeal to have my ban lifted so I may keep playing, hopefully to learn what the true intentions of the rules are, and what is and is not allowed so I can play without breaking rules

Ok! So, let's get this started! From what I've been told and what I feel, I do not think I have broken any rules that should result in a ban from the server. That being said, I've been told there is video evidence of me breaking these rules. I would definitely love to see the videos, I'm hoping it would help me understand where the ban is coming from and where you guys are coming from. I'm also hoping I can explain through those videos where I am coming from as well. Maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle. This is only in reference to spawn camping, however. As far as official warnings on the server for arguing with an admin are concerned, I've only been warned once (The warnings that use B3, just to clarify). I've been addressed by the 'console' before, but it was never converted to an official warning. 3 strikes you're out kind of thing. But besides that, I do not believe that I argue anyway. If a server admin is accusing me of doing something that I do not believe I am doing, I will tell them. That's not arguing, it's defending myself against an accusation. If I were using tubes (that shows up in killfeed) and were told I was using tubes and to stop and I said No, screw you... That'd be arguing and disrespectful.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing back from you guys! I love dialogue and discussing this game!

Thank you for your appeal. We are in receipt and our admins will discuss the circumstances and formulate our response. This may take some time as we take each ban seriously and have instituted processes to ensure the actions taken are fair and just, and that they are representative of the standards and best interests of the Section 8 Clan and our online gaming family.

I told you yesterday shortly after you when arrived in-game that you were going to be banned for arguing with administrators and spawn camping. I repeated this in a brief conversation on Discord as well. To be more specific, our B3 installation spams server rules on a continuous loop and the two in question appear as follows in sequence two minutes apart about every half an hour or so:

Rule #7: Do not aim at spawn points or camp where spawns are visible.
Rule #8: No arguing with admins. Listen and learn or leave.

These are the rules that were determined to be broken and the basis for your ban.

_________________
Vagisil. Use only as directed.

Hello,
Thank you for appealing your ban, and for bringing us your best arguments as to why you should be allowed to keep playing on the server.

First of all, I want to state that we have unanimously agreed that your ban should stay in effect.

The reasons for this decision are:
1) You have been playing on our server for several years, and during this time you should, beyond any doubt, have become aware of our rules.
2) Despite (1), over the course of three years we have been engaged in discussions with and about your gameplay, which has been observed by several admins to consist largely of spawn camping.
3) As a result of said discussions, you have periodically improved your behaviour, but it always eventually ends up as it was - with further discussions to follow.

As stated by Vagisil, the rules based on which your ban has been instantiated are 1) no spawn camping, and 2) no arguing with admins (on the server).
You claim, firstly, that you have never been spawn camping - you wait until people move out, and then you kill them. However, you do not allow people to move very far before killing them, and you also tend to remain in the exact same spot, aiming towards the exact same areas of the map, and thus you lock down spawn points, which we do consider spawn camping. Hence, you have indeed broken the first rule mentioned above.
Secondly, you claim that you have never argued with our admins - you are only defending yourself. However, it has been pointed out that defending oneself is, by definition, arguing. Hence, your claim is false, and you have nevertheless broken the second aforementioned rule as well.

Based on the fact that these discussions have been going on for several years, we have lost our patience and belief that you will be able, in the future, to change your behaviour for good; and based on the fact that your behaviour has been observed by several admins during these years, we are by far beyond the point where we can grant you the benefit of doubt.

Those are the reasons that it has been decided to let your ban remain in effect.
We are of course sad that it has come to this - banning a regular player means our server has lost a fraction of its sustainability. On the other hand, however, allowing for someone to so persistently break our rules without taking adequate administrative action is also a threat to the sustainability of the server, and it is a more significant threat than banning one player, as it will eventually and inevitably drive away more players, not to mention the fact that inadequate administrative action puts at risk the general adherence to our rules.

I hope you will be able to find a place where your gamestyle is accepted, so that you can continue having the fun you need.


Kind regards,
[s*8].NobodyCan and the Section 8 Administration

_________________
"If I can't do it.." -NobodyCan

My best arguments? I've only said my opening statements... I've had nothing to argue against other than accusations. I've seen no proof that I've even done the things that I've been accused of. (Sounds familiar...) I have asked multiple times to see the videos of the rule breaking. It must be pretty damning to warrant a unanimous decision. But this also goes back to why I would argue on the server as well. I would only be told I was doing these things that I felt I was not. I was never given specifics as to when I broke them, just to stop. It'd be like if someone told you to stop doing that thing that you did that time at that place. What time? What thing? What place? I would love to know! However, I will say that our definitions of spawn camping are very different. With the way I play, there are tons of ways around it. If a TEAM gets locked down by a SINGLE player, they're just as responsible. Are they doing everything they can to get out? Do they have smokes? Are they using the super innovative and secret technique of using the q and e keys to peak corners? Are they throwing nades to where I'm 'camping'? Or are they pressing shift+w out into the open right when their feet hit the ground? If there's a problem with the speed in which people die after spawning, consider implementing temporary invincibility when you spawn. That way, you aren't punished for running head down OUT of spawn.

I will hesitantly concede the point of arguing with admins, but would like to say it's pretty corrupt in my opinion to not allow a verbal defense from an accusation that someone feels is incorrect. What if an admin accused me of using a tube when I was not. I tell them I was not, but they claim up and down I am. I continue to defend my stance that I was not. Am I then found guilty of breaking the rule? It's somewhat the same thing here for me. I'm being accused by admins of doing something that I am not doing.

Right now, to the general public who do not have access to your admin forums, you've simply accused me and banned me with no proof provided. You've played the part of the plaintiff, jury, and judge. I'm sure I don't have to explain why having a single entity perform all those roles might be corrupt.

As mentioned in the reply, your behaviour has been observed on numerous occasions, by several admins, and thus it is a situation with the word of several people against one. It does not matter whether you "feel" that you have done something wrong - we have all, independently, observed something and judged it to be against the rules. This fact certainly justifies us in deciding to ban you.

As for your "have they tried everything?" comment: Trying does not mean succeeding. People may throw hundreds of grenades in your general direction, but having to do so in a matter of seconds after spawning - cooking, taking aim, throwing - can be very hectic, and hence one's aim may not be sufficiently accurate. Or, you know, you may have moved a bit so that the grenade does not end up landing next to you after all.
It is very difficult to break out of a spawn point that is being constantly pinned down by someone with a very accurate weapon (e.g., M16 or G3, which I know you like to use), and therefore it is in no way fair to simply put the blame on the victims.
Further, this does not only concern "below-average" players who feel like they aren't given a fair chance - experienced players, such as myself, Ruddy, and many other of our members and regulars, have all been frustratingly affected by your gameplay, despite our awareness that we need to actually fight back.

Regarding the corruption claim: We do allow people to defend themselves briefly - if someone accuses you of using a tube, but you did not in fact use a tube, then you are more than welcome to point out the error of their accusation, and then our admins are professional enough to look into it before taking any further action.
What we do not allow is for you to start complaining about our rules, or maintaining that you are not wrong in using a tube, or persistently lying about whether you used a tube. I'm sure you can see why we would not allow such sorts of discussions.

Anyway, this is our decision, and our decision is final. So, please simply move on - neither of us is going to get anything our of further discussion.

Still have not seen any proof of the things I have been accused of. If I'm hoping to gain anything from this conversation it's the proof. Every time I bring up showing me and the general public videos, it's either dismissed (Vagisil saying he doesn't have the videos) or outright ignored (literally every other time). A demo file would suffice much like what was done when theWhip recieved his ban for the same thing.

The places I shoot from are the same places I've get killed from all the time. The only maps I can think of that are extremely oppressive are bog and wetworks. Both of which are extremely 2 dimensional and one team is prone to getting killed immediately out of spawn regardless. Backlot has some garbage spawns which in recent games I have avoided exploiting. (Second story by the MG looking by the garage fenced off spawn. I've purposefully avoided that spot).

Any thoughts on the invincibility spawns?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FSRXKTmFD0

You can go spend a minute starting at about 1:03. This discussion is over. Move along.

_________________
Vagisil. Use only as directed.

FYI, we have banned your new key as well.

_________________
Vagisil. Use only as directed.