Section 8 Clan Forums

Hi guys, its theWhip and im a very active player on your server. So tonight here i am at 11:00AM Pacific time trying to join the server and it shows that im permanently banned. The last time i played was 5/26 at night. Unfortunately what ever happened i was banned out of game so i don't know which admin banned me and why i was banned. Any clarification would be nice, thanks.

i meant i was trying to get on at 11PM, my bad...

I suspect it's no surprise to you that people have been monitoring and recording your gameplay for some time now. Through continued observation, and despite several requests to cease, we have banned you because of repeated targeting of spawn points.

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Vagisil. Use only as directed.

i noticed dramatic change in respawn points and the time of respawn, what am i to do when im already there. Spawn killing is not something i intent to do. The majority of players in the server will respawn kill when they have the chance. To be honest i don't remember getting any warnings from any admin, and don't notice people complaining. I've always been respectful of people and admins on the server and always get bash on but no matter what i kept my cool. A loud and clear warning would be nice instead of quietly banning me as if to get rid of me somehow. Please consider lifting the ban.

I would also like to add to this discussion as I have been warned a couple times as well. So I guess I'll just do a brain dump here about my general thoughts on spawns and stuff.

There has been a couple times where I will be looking down a sightline, and a player will spawn right in where I am looking. I kill them because TARGET!, but will say sorry in the chat after and move somewhere else. Then there are times on maps like Bog or Wet Works where you literally can't look anywhere that is not a spawn point that I have been warned on. I'll sit places that MANY people have before, looking at the same places. About a week ago, there was a player on Bog literally spamming his RPD at the WALL for the spawn point, I pointed it out, and it was dismissed saying the map was a big spawn anyway. However, I sit on the barrel that overlooks the shipping container on Spetz spawn towards Marine spawn, shoot people as they run OUT of the spawn, not the spawn itself, and I get a warning. Same thing with Wet Works. Plenty of times people will be running through the spawns themselves, but I get a warning for doing the same thing. There should be clear lines between spawn killing, spawn camping, and spawn lockdown. On maps like Bog and Wet Works, lets be honest, it's going to happen. Unless everyone plays looking sideways, you're going to be looking at a spawn point. But for maps like Backlot, the garage spawn, it gets a little tricky. That spawn SUCKS because you get killed as soon as you run out of the squared off area. Is that spawn camping, or just lockdown? Are the players doing everything they can to get out of the spawn? Is sitting in the back with an LMG helping your team push out of the spawn? Are they using the lean feature to peak corners to kill the players outside the spawn? If one players is keeping an entire team locked down, then that entire team is doing something wrong. ANYway! The main thing I would like to distinguish is the difference between spawn killing, spawn camping, and spawn lockdown. Spawn killing is something that I like to define as one person (or multiple people) running in the spawn of another team, in the thick of it, killing whatever they see. It's hard to keep up for long because players can spawn all around you. Spawn camping would be a single person (or multiple people again) looking at the exact spawn of the other team. Spots like on Backlot, from the weird metal stacks by garage spawn to under the stairway by the gas station. You can see people spawn there. Just places that you can SEE the people spawn. That's pretty scummy and I try to avoid it. BUT then there is spawn lockdown where you are looking OUTSIDE the actual spawn points to where people would usually run face first out into the open. That's fine. That's on the players running out like chickens with their heads cut off. I've done that plenty of times myself. I do not think that this kind of spawn killing should be punishable. Just the actual spawn camping. I think that things need to be clearly defined so everyone can avoid confusion, finger pointing, and frustration.

TL;DR: Spawn camping - BAD. Spawn killing - OK. Spawn lockdown - OK. Ban on theWhip - Consider Lifting. This post - Just My Opinion.

We do not tolerate excessive wall banging, and especially not at spawn points, so what you described at first, Jump, is not allowed.

Like you say, on some maps it's hard to avoid spawn killing, and it is alright as long as you don't intentionally sit somewhere with a clear view of spawn points and shoot everyone right as they spawn; we also like people to be able to move around properly, so you can do this "spawn lockdown" excessively, too.

theWhip - We are discussing this internally and we will provide you with our final determination within the next seven days. Thank you for your patience.

Attached is a demo video provided recently by Tarzan which brought this to a head. My apologies for the raw nature, I didn't take time to re-record/edit/upload, but I am sure you know how to review it. Midway through the video, you repeatedly target a spawn point on the Marines start side in the back corner by the MMG. Down sight, just waiting. Interpretive here, but the intent seems pretty clear.

Yoshi (Jump) - Thank you for opining, for the detailed explanation of tactics, and for acknowledging having been warned about targeting spawns. I have communicated with both of you more than once in-game directly via chat as well as via console.

In your TL;DR passage the relative term for targeting spawns is "spawn camping". That's likely the common reference most people use, but I have found that "camping" is ambiguous as it could also encompass strategies to "lock down" the spawn wherein a player posts up and does not move. Spawn camping can become malicious as well. But when sights are on spawn points, seems like a no-brainer.

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Vagisil. Use only as directed.

Thanks you Jump for chiming in. You made some valid points and of the three types of spawn killing you mentioned there are two that the majority of players or EVERYONE does every game. There is more spawn killing and lock down killing than actual spawn camping. When teams are stacked and the opposing team is bunker in everyone just follows the flow either entering the spawn or waiting outside with the spawn in view. Its charge and die for me depending on the weapons i have at that time. As mentioned, spawn killing in some maps is inevitable due to size and map layout. When the killing starts some players just tend to stand out more and i will admit sometimes i get carry away myself. I hardly sit at all and when i don't its usually waiting at the choke points or lock down spawn killing. What im getting to is that this is all instinct, when you played long enough that you know the spawns you turn your view and move accordingly to engage.

Like i said during some days especially when there are fewer players than normal i do get carried away. Anyways Thanks for considering a rediscussion about this matter.

Greetings theWhip,

I very much appreciate your civility in approaching us maturely through our forums.

Our administrators have had a very lively discussion about your appeal. Just so you know, the thread where we have discussed your appeal includes 39 posts and 253 views as I begin to draft this post. In the end, the decision came down to the fact that you have received multiple warnings about targeting spawn points and you failed to follow suit. I believe that a player of your caliber fully knows the sensitivities related to clan gaming environments and the importance of following instructions given by administrators.

The discussion about this is not a closed conversation within the administrator ranks and over time we may reconsider this decision. If our decision changes I will reach out to you directly via email and PM to let you know.

Thank you,
V

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Vagisil. Use only as directed.

Wooooo! Busy busy week. It wasn't the update i wanted to hear but i appreciate you guys and gals for discussing this. I don't ever remember any admins warning me directly in game but its your server and i understand your decision. Well it seems like this is good bye, it was fun while it lasted. Message me anytime when the server feels like they want me to come back and kick booty. See you guys and gals around.

Anyways Happy Father's Day